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And I have been honored to fulfill them and honored to invite them. Chairman Leahy. Additionally, as my last question, in several of the testimony today there has been a recommendation that, of training course, just with all the hundreds of billions, trillions of bucks ready to invest, you must simply go elsewhere.


Stenger. I would certainly inform you that in this environment the capability to raise capital for the important things we are doing would have-- it is difficult to do so in a fashion that would enable us as successfully and as rapidly create things we have actually done. You can borrow cash if you have got 50 percent down.


I could have borrowed half of that if I had the $12 million in money to set up. Everyone understands that, yes, banks have cash to loan as long as you have got half of it in your pocket before you ask for the other half. That is not exactly how organization works nowadays.

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You are speaking from a real-world experience, not from a think tank experience. I will certainly leave that merely as a gratuitous remark from the Chairman. Legislator Grassley. Senator Grassley. Thanks. I desire to be accountable in this issue of undocumented workers. I wish to confess that we only have anecdotal details, yet I would such as to ask you to what level you have to go or do go to make sure that the facilities ensure that the investments do not create work for people here illegally.


Mr. Stenger. We have actually employed-- as I stated, at the Optimal we had 550 building employees on our project.


They are comprised of 10, 15, 20, 30 staff members. They are from our local counties. They are Vermonters. They are profiting directly from the financial investment. We are a hands-on facility. I know the employees, I know their family members, and we have actually had the ability to use-- with these last 3 years of terrible financial chaos, we have been able to employ nearly every building employee in our region and the surrounding areas.

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They are spent in the communities, and they are all U.S. workers. Senator Grassley. Mr. Stenger.


Thanks. Mr. North, along the very same lines of the question I asked him, has click here your research revealed examples other-- and I just gave one instance, so I desire to admit that and be responsible concerning it-- of centers hiring undocumented individuals? Mr. North. That sort of information is really hard to get from USCIS, and I should say that what we do understand about most of the inner things regarding that firm regarding this program is worried connects to cases in which the personnel has actually stated no to an application of some kind and after that the regional facility or the specific entrepreneur has actually gone to the Administrative Appeals Workplace-- which becomes part of the firm-- and there we obtain files, we get a hearing officer telling us what is taking place in that particular case.




This is a poor application." There is an amount of bad applications out there, but just when that process obtains before a management legislation judge do we see much in the way of information. Currently, there was one instance that you mentioned, and let me simply specify on that a little bit.

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Do not take as well long since I wish to ask one more couple inquiries. Go ahead and rapidly coating. Mr. North. The dairy products ranch had declared 17 workers, and they entered it, and the court discovered that 16 of them were illegals. Now, that is the one example I have, and it is a fine example.


Okay. I am going to ask different questions of each of the 3 of you, yet it handles this one problem. As I said in my opening statement, I am worried about the potential technicality that enables investors to withdraw their investment in local facilities after obtaining their copyright.


Mr. Divine. I would state that most of the investors, if you asked them what are their goals, they would say, "I want to get a copyright, and I want to keep it.


If I put my cash in a hotel growth-- Senator Grassley. Can I assume then that you are saying that there does not need to be any kind of adjustments made because respect? Mr. Divine. I do not believe so. Senator Grassley. Okay. Allow me ask Mr. Stenger, is it typical for a financier in your experience to withdraw his or her investment quickly after getting an environment-friendly card? Mr.

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Senator, no. Our programs need that the capitalist be invested for a minimum of 5 years and be repaid just if the company remains in a position to do so at the end of that time. We have the benefit of the capital to create the service, get it running, make it successful, guarantee that the work will certainly be created and maintained, and after that just if the service is successful will certainly there be an exit technique for the investor.